Justice, Order and the Courage to Dissent

In theory, purpose is inspiring. In practice, it is demanding.

For The Hon. Justice Michael Kirby AC CMG, one of Australia’s longest-serving High Court Justices and a lifelong human rights advocate, purpose was never abstract. It was lived — case by case, judgment by judgment — often under intense scrutiny, and sometimes in dissent.

In Episode 2 of Purpose in Action, Justice Kirby reflects on what it means to live one’s values in high-stakes environments, where decisions are complex, disagreement is inevitable, and courage is required.

A childhood declaration — and a lifelong commitment

When asked in primary school what he intended to become, the young Michael Kirby replied: “Either a bishop or a judge.”

The answer, he jokes, may have reflected a fascination with “fancy dress.” But beneath the humour was something more enduring — a deep interest in order, authority, and the drama of intellectual conflict.

Yet the clarity of that childhood ambition did not immediately translate into a sophisticated understanding of justice. As he reflects, what first attracted him to the law was its promise of stability and order. The deeper awareness — that the law could both protect and perpetuate injustice — came later, shaped by lived experience and reflection.

This evolution is central to the episode’s theme: purpose is not only discovered; it is refined through practice.

Order and justice: a delicate balance

Throughout the conversation, Justice Kirby returns to a powerful dichotomy: law must reconcile order and justice.

Too much authority without justice, he argues, becomes authoritarianism. Too much justice without order risks chaos.

The task of a judge — and indeed any leader operating in complex systems — is to hold these tensions with integrity.

This balance became especially visible during his time on the High Court. Often labelled “the great dissenter,” Kirby resists the title. Dissents, he explains, are not acts of rebellion. They are expressions of duty.

In the Australian and English legal traditions, a judge has both the right and the obligation to express an honest view — even when it diverges from the majority. The health of the institution depends on that independence.

“It’s not really all that difficult,” he says. “Your duty is to give your honest opinion.”

Purpose, here, is not performative. It is procedural. It is the disciplined practice of stating what one believes to be true — respectfully, clearly, and without personal rancour.

His philosophy? “Kill them with kindness.”

The role of values in decision-making

When Justice Kirby entered law school in 1958, the dominant view — championed by Chief Justice Owen Dixon — was “complete and absolute legalism.” Judges, it was argued, did not create law; they merely declared what already existed. Values were irrelevant.

But Kirby studied under Professor Julius Stone, who challenged that orthodoxy. Judges, Stone argued, inevitably bring values to their decisions. The duty, therefore, is not to deny this reality — but to be transparent about it.

This intellectual debate shaped Kirby’s judicial philosophy. In moments of constitutional ambiguity or statutory uncertainty, he believed judges must explain not only their reasoning, but the values informing it.

That transparency, he suggests, strengthens democratic accountability. Citizens can support or critique a judgment not as mysticism, but as reasoned moral and legal argument.

Purpose, in this sense, becomes a disciplined practice of intellectual honesty.

Lived experience as moral compass

Kirby speaks candidly about how his upbringing influenced his values. Educated entirely in public schools, he encountered poverty, inequality and social marginalisation firsthand. His early awareness of his own sexuality — at a time when homosexuality was criminalised — sharpened his sensitivity to injustice embedded in law.

These experiences did not make him immune to doubt. But they shaped the lens through which he interpreted legal questions.

“Experience of feeling injustice,” he reflects, “can make you question things.”

For emerging leaders, this insight is profound: lived experience is not a liability in decision-making. It is a source of moral clarity — provided it is coupled with intellectual discipline.

International law: idealism or necessity?

A significant portion of the conversation explores Kirby’s longstanding commitment to international law and the United Nations.

In an era where multilateralism is contested and the authority of global institutions questioned, Kirby remains resolute. The United Nations, he acknowledges, is imperfect — particularly given the veto powers of the permanent five members of the Security Council. Yet its foundational achievement — the Universal Declaration of Human Rights — remains, in his view, one of humanity’s most important moral documents.

Article 1 declares: “All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.”

For Kirby, that principle is not aspirational rhetoric. It is a standard against which domestic law should be measured.

He rejects the notion that international human rights norms are “heresy” within domestic legal reasoning. Instead, he sees reconciliation between domestic and international law as inevitable — and necessary — in an age of nuclear weapons, climate change, pandemics and mass migration.

Without shared principles, he warns, we risk sliding from a rules-based system into one governed by brute power.

Purpose, in this domain, becomes long-term stewardship — holding faith in institutions even when they are flawed, and working to strengthen rather than abandon them.

Advice to young leaders: be a joiner

As the episode closes, Justice Kirby offers practical counsel to young people seeking to lead with purpose.

Study the issues deeply.
Understand the history of institutions.
Keep the Universal Declaration of Human Rights close.

And above all: be a joiner.

Join organisations advancing human rights. Join groups defending minorities. Join movements opposing injustice. Participation, he suggests, is how purpose moves from sentiment to impact.

In a digital age often dominated by commentary, Kirby advocates contribution.

Don’t be disheartened

Despite the geopolitical turbulence of the past decade, Justice Kirby remains cautiously hopeful.

“The lesson of a long life,” he says, “is that things generally tend to come out good in the end — but only if the great majority of us contribute.”

Purpose, then, is not a grand gesture. It is a sustained practice.
It is the willingness to disagree respectfully.
To explain your values clearly.
To defend institutions while seeking to reform them.
To choose justice without abandoning order.

In a time when public discourse is increasingly polarised, Justice Kirby reminds us that leadership is not about volume or dominance. It is about integrity — lived consistently, even when inconvenient.

And that, perhaps, is purpose as practice.

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🎧 Listen to Episode 2 — Purpose as practice on Purpose in Action Podcast Series.

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Natasha Eskinja

Digital Communications Coordinator

Natasha is driven by a profound passion for both creativity and analytics, a synergy that fosters authentic storytelling in the digital realm with both innovation and integrity. 

Throughout her career, she has consistently integrated the overarching marketing and communications narrative with the emotional connections of audiences. She is currently pursuing a Certificate in Society and the Individual from Flinders University, furthering her exploration of human behaviour and the critical importance of connectedness between organisations, individuals, and communities.

LinkedIn | natasha.eskinja@menziesfoundation.org.au

Sarah Jenkins

Strategic Communications Manager

Sarah has more than 18 years’ experience in communications and marketing leadership across a range of sectors.

Communications strategy and organisational growth is a continuing theme in Sarah’s career. Most recently, she leads the development of a Leadership Movement, evaluated by Menzies Viral Co-efficient Model; a contribution to the NFP. 

Sarah’s early career centred around best practice in marketing and communications which later culminated into the establishment of her very own agency. This work extensively spanned across PR, traditional media, event management, strategy, digital marketing, graphic design and business development consultancy. 

In 2019, Sarah joined the lean and robust team at the Menzies Foundation. She has since crafted the Foundation’s narrative and communication strategy. The development of this strategic communications platform is essential for ‘movement building’ and requires a strong strategic, management and communication skills set. Sarah has brought so much to this important work, which sits at the forefront of communication practice. 

Sarah continues to contribute to the NFP sector through her commitment to Purpose; as she reflects on her own leadership, builds her own leadership capability and contributes to the greater good. 

LinkedIn | sarah.jenkins@menziesfoundation.org.au | 0401 880 071

Rohan Martyres

Director, Strategy and Partnerships

Rohan has 15 years’ experience in facilitating cross-sector collaborations to address complex social and health challenges.  He has worked with the World Economic Forum in Australia, led an international conflict resolution field team in Nepal, and directed a 10-year £40m initiative to reduce health inequity in London.

Most recently, Rohan was Major Grants Development Manager at the Ian Potter Foundation.  He refined the foundation’s major grants strategy, and co-developed a series of large scale initiatives, including joint philanthropic-government funding for a new national organization to support place-based approaches across Australia.

Rohan has held several non-executive roles, including with an international NGO and with London Funders, the peak body of independent foundations in London.  He holds several qualifications including a graduate degree in innovation and strategy from the Judge Business School, University of Cambridge.

When Rohan isn’t exploring Melbourne’s creeks with his partner and 6yo daughter, he’s working on his currently weak Australian accent (after 15 years in the UK).

LinkedIn | rohan.martyres@menziesfoundation.org.au | 0404 505 954

Trudy Morrison

Operations Manager

A marketing and communications specialist with over 20 years experience in government, corporate and consumer marketing, Trudy brings her adaptive and organisational project management skills to the Menzies Foundation team. 

With a BA degree in Public Relations, Trudy began her career with the City of Melbourne and in magazine publishing, before moving into marketing communications consulting. She has worked in strategic marketing leadership roles with retail brands and enjoys juggling many projects and tasks simultaneously. Her skills were further enhanced when managing her own communications business representing industries across private education, financial services, aviation, government and the health industry. 

Trudy is passionate about leadership and all people being encouraged to reach their full potential through research and educational initiatives and opportunities throughout Australia. A skilled and accomplished writer and editor Trudy is enthusiastic about bringing her variety of skills to the Menzies Foundation team. 

LinkedIn | trudy.morrison@menziesfoundation.org.au | 0402 361 878

Liz Gillies

Chief Executive Officer

Liz Gillies has had over 25 years experience in a range of fields focused on initiatives for social impact. She has held roles in multiple sectors and academia.

In 2018, Liz was appointed CEO of the Menzies Foundation which aspires to build a leadership movement that supports Australians to pivot to purpose, build their leadership capability and contribute to the ‘greater good’.

Liz joined the Melbourne Business School in 2009 and was instrumental in establishing the Asia Pacific Social Impact Centre (APSIC) and The Centre for Ethical Leadership. In November 2011 she was appointed as research fellow to lead a partnership focused on strategic philanthropy which culminated in the release of the reports: Philanthropy: Towards a Better Practice Model (2018) and the Philanthropy: The Continued Journey to Real Impact and better Practice (2021).

Liz has extensive governance experience, having served on the Board of the Publish Galleries Association of Victoria, Social Firms Australia, Uniting Care Community Options, United Way Australia and the Development Committee of the Towards a Just Society Foundation. She is currently on the Philanthropy Reference Group of Barmal Bijiril and a Director of Philanthropy Australia.

LinkedIn | liz.gillies@menziesfoundation.org.au | 0416 112 703

Natasha Eskinja

Digital Communications Coordinator

Natasha is driven by a profound passion for both creativity and analytics, a synergy that fosters authentic storytelling in the digital realm with both innovation and integrity. 

Throughout her career, she has consistently integrated the overarching marketing and communications narrative with the emotional connections of audiences. She is currently pursuing a Certificate in Society and the Individual from Flinders University, furthering her exploration of human behaviour and the critical importance of connectedness between organisations, individuals, and communities.